Listener Mailbag and Brock McGillis
It's time for another listener mailbag! Piper Shaw, JT Brown, and Grant answer a selection of questions submitted by listeners about everything from rules, to road life, to JT's take on potato salad.
Later on, our hosts are joined by Brock McGillis to discuss his journey as the first openly gay professional hockey player. Brock also details his career after hockey as a public speaker, advocating for inclusion in sports. His Shiftmakers Tour is starting across the US after completing a successful run all over Canada. You can learn more about Brock and the Shiftmakers Tour at brockmcgillis.com
Transcript
Foreign. Hello, everyone, and thank you so much for joining us for another edition of Signals from the Deep.
The official podcast tentacle of the Kraken Hockey Network is, as we like to say, I am Piper Shaw with you as always, joined by J.T. brown.
JT Brown:Hello. Hello.
Piper Shaw:Grant Beery.
Grant Beery:Hello.
Piper Shaw:How are our spirits in this moment? You guys?
Grant Beery:Good?
Piper Shaw:Good spirits.
Grant Beery:I'm okay.
Brock McGillis:Yeah?
Grant Beery:Yeah.
Piper Shaw:Okay, well, that's good, because we this episode, we are taking a bunch of questions, so I hope we have our thinking caps on, because we are taking listener questions for a Kraken mail bag. So I sent out some posts on the good old blue sky and on Twitter asking for all of your very burning questions. There's definitely.
There's a variety in here. Some are cracking hockey based, some are organizational based. Some are kind of like broadcast behind the scenes personal stuff.
So we have a whole, whole mix in our mailbag. Want to jump in?
JT Brown:Yeah, let's go.
Grant Beery:Let's do it.
Piper Shaw:All right, let's start with this one. This one comes from Kraken fan 01 on Blue sky who says, how can we improve the power play? And more importantly, does JT like potato salad?
JT Brown:I'm going to answer the second one first. Yeah, Absolutely not. I hate everything about potato salad. I'm a very picky eater, so.
Piper Shaw:Yes, you are.
JT Brown:It's just. It's not for me. Never will be for me. Coleslaw the same like all those? No, but to the.
The harder question, I guess for the power play, how do you fix the power play? I'll preface. I didn't play on the power play very much in the National Hockey League, but I did do a lot of penalty killing.
So I guess I can speak from more of a penalty killing perspective. And, you know, what makes a power play hard to penalty kill against?
And, you know, one of the first things I always think of is, you know, having the shot mentality first and not necessarily looking for that perfect pass or that perfect play through the seams.
Right at the start of a power play, when everybody's fresh, we talk about shift links and, you know, if you can get a shot from the middle, force the penalty killers to turn around. They then have to find the puck and then re attack.
And, you know, as long as you get them, I guess for longer times, extended times in the zone, they start to wear down a little bit. Right. And you don't start making the best decisions as a penalty kill. Right. Your stick might not be in the lane.
You might not read the play the exact way you would, you know, if you're fresh and you just started so, you know, getting those first couple shot opportunities, that one holds the PK accountable.
To be in that lane and not know that you're going to defer, you know, to another player, to another pass, but, you know, just focus on trying to get that shot, get the penalty killers tired, then you can start, you know, dissecting the box and sending plays, you know, east, west, you know, through and try to make the goal line plays. But, you know, it's all about just taking what's given by the penalty kill.
You obviously have one more player, but you also have to have that urgency, right? You have to go out there and outwork the penalty killers.
More often than not, I'll say your penalty killers, obviously you get some skill guys out there that definitely kill as well, but a lot of your energy guys are going to be your penalty killers. So they're always going to be out there working hard. They're always going to be trying to make sure they put themselves in the lane.
So from a power play perspective, you have to go out there and outwork them. And, you know, we have seen times where the Kraken power play has gotten hot and they've been able to score some goals and some big moments.
And, you know, I think one of the things is probably just the breakout, right, is where you find a little bit of the struggle of, you know, getting in the zone. But once they're set and you start moving the puck, obviously when you move it quicker, it forces the penalty killers to think a bit faster.
But, you know, obviously just getting in the zone, whether that's a dump, whether that's carrying it in and just, I guess, recognizing what is given and what is there. And if they're taking away, you carrying the puck in, well, maybe then the option is to just dump it in and go get it back.
So just take what's given and, you know, obviously at times we have seen the success, we've seen them move the puck around, you know, very well and, you know, just try to find that consistency with the power play. But, you know, for me, it's all about, you know, establishing the shot first.
Piper Shaw:And I think we, I mean, we've definitely heard that from Vince Dunn quite a bit too. He's been very honest before the break talking about the struggles of the power play. He's clearly frustrated.
You know, he's been very vocal about saying, like, no, it's, it's not good enough. And that's on me, and that's on both, you Know both units.
And also to, to your point, he's talked about the breakout as, as we know, being a point of contention perhaps of set up and being able to generate. If you can't even get set up, then, you know.
JT Brown:Well, I look at it too from a, you know, a two minute power play. You go down, obviously break out and you bring it back and you don't get into the zone, you don't get set up, it gets sent back down the ice.
That's another 10 to 15 seconds taken off of your power play. So now you have less time in the zone. So every time you don't enter, that takes another 10 to 15 in. So you get stopped a couple times.
Now you're not working with that full two minutes. You're working with, you know, let's just say a minute and a half at this point or even less, you know, once it goes down.
But I think there are, there has been positive signs, you know, but it's more about just finding that consistency out there.
Piper Shaw:Okay, do you want to go back to the potato salad for. Okay, just, just a moment.
I never was a big potato salad fan either, but I have found certain potato salads that I have liked and they usually are ones that are like, not just straight up like mayonnaise and potatoes. They have like a lot of seasonings. Like sometimes the ones with like fancy mustards and stuff. Like, I'm more open to just.
I just wanted to say, I don't know if that changes.
JT Brown:Don't like mustard, don't like mayonnaise.
Grant Beery:Have you ever had like German potato salad? Doesn't have any mayonnaise in it. It's mostly vinegar based.
JT Brown:I don't really like that either.
Piper Shaw:I prefer that. That is good. That's the kind that I like. All right, moving on. Next question comes from Lord Snorkel on Blue Sky.
He says, what's the time on the team plane? Like, do the players come talk to y'all? Do y'all play board games?
JT Brown:I guess it's different, I guess each time, obviously, like plane rides, going to or leaving Seattle, like going to the, you know, wherever you're going. The first leg of the trip is sometimes different after a game.
Vibes can be different after a game, obviously, if it's a win, but versus a loss and how the, the plane works.
I would say there are a few guys that come up and talk, whether it's Yanni, Moni, you know, guys that obviously I've played with, or, you know very well and get to have a few Conversations with them. Even on the. The mother's trip. Monty was my seat mate.
Piper Shaw:I was gonna say. It was like you were literally sitting with Monty.
JT Brown:It was a. It was a flashback in time to our time in Anaheim where we actually did sit together on the plane.
So obviously, you know, guys that, you know, they'll come up and have some conversations, especially when they're up getting food or, you know, just making their way to the. The plane. But from our perspective, I guess mine, no, no board games.
Obviously players can get into the card games or, you know, whatever board games they're playing.
Grant Beery:Yes, that what Yanni was talking about.
JT Brown:Yeah, so they do that more. So just talk every now and then. We'll throw the switch on and I'll play some switch games.
I know Piper Yu will be on your Switch on the planes, but as far as board games, I'll say no, but there are some talks. And again, it also just depends, I think too, on, you know, when the plane ride is, are they tired after a game, getting in late.
So there's definitely different levels of, like, how interactive you are, you know, with the players.
Grant Beery:Are you guys catching up on movies, you know, podcasts, anything like that while you're on the plane or.
Piper Shaw:Well, JT usually just talks to John the entire time. They're always just like heads together, just talking and talking, which is good. JT loves to talk. It's a good thing we. You have a podcast, right?
JT Brown:Talk enough during the game and all of a sudden we're just. We're keep going for the hour flight and. No, it's. It's fun, obviously, you know, to be able to sit back, break down things, talk about the.
The team, the game, where things are going, just another avenue. But at the same time, I do enjoy it. Obviously with Johnny's schedule, it's been different. It's been different this year, so not as much time on the.
The team playing with his Amazon games as well. So obviously moving around a lot. So haven't had my seat mate for majority of flights.
Although Piper, we got to sit by each other on the plane for one as well. And what did we do? We talked.
Piper Shaw:So we did talk. Yeah, we talked.
JT Brown:No Switch games. Just put it down.
Piper Shaw:And we talked about anime a lot because I was trying to convince JT to watch Spirited Away because I love Spirited Away, which is to call it. Anime is also not really anime.
JT Brown:Yeah.
Grant Beery:I mean, sure, one of my favorite movies of all time.
JT Brown:It was good.
Grant Beery:All time.
JT Brown:It was good. Maybe not my cup of tea. Like I would have wanted, like, more action, but you said it was a little slow. Overall, like, story wise, like, I understand.
I can see why it won the Academy Award. Why it's very highly rated. Just wasn't my. My thing. But it was still enough for me to watch the whole thing, so it was good.
So, yeah, definitely good conversation.
Grant Beery:I got homework for you then. Same director watch Princess Monanoke.
JT Brown:Okay.
Grant Beery:A lot of action in that one. I think you'd love it. So.
JT Brown:All right, well, I'll write that one down.
Grant Beery:There you go.
Piper Shaw:Anyway, yeah, to. To echo jt. I will. I'll talk to some of the players if they come talk to me, which sometimes there's, like, little things.
I mean, like, on the mom's trip, all of their mom. Literally all of their moms were, like, stopping and talking to me. And it was everyone's, like, who would have.
Would have predicted that Piper would have been the most popular person on the plane today? But I think it's because of the features that I've been producing on a lot of the players.
So I guess a lot of their moms have been very keen on them, which is good. That also. That's good. But, yeah, and I've also. I play my switch a lot, like J.T. said.
And the guys have in the past invited me to be part of their Mario Kart tournament. So it was funny because it was actually Vince.
Vince Dunn, who came up to me when I was playing my switch, and he was like, do you want to play cart with the guys? And I was like, I'm not sure. Like, I'm a little bit. I'm a little bit afraid of that. And he. And he was like, okay, hold on, I'll be back.
And he doesn't even play. He doesn't. I don't even know if he has a switch. He was just inviting me. So then Oliver.
JT Brown:Nice.
Piper Shaw:Yeah. So Oliver came up and, like, got me all, like, looped into the Mario Kart tournament.
JT Brown:Did you win?
Piper Shaw:No, I did not win, but I also was not playing on my proper. Like, I was playing on my personal account, not Jake's account, which normally we always play in Jake's account.
So I didn't have, like, any of my characters or my card or my maps. Like, and I didn't realize that. So, like, going into it. So I was. I was not doing my best. I didn't have any of my settings right. Like, I was a little.
But I. I don't think I got last, though.
JT Brown:That's good.
Piper Shaw:That's good. But anyway, yeah, so I usually play my switch, and I usually.
Well, in the past, I would sit by our excellent, incredible producer Ryan Shaber on the plane. I usually am sitting by him, but he's not traveling as much anymore. So then now I sit by Pat Brown a lot, who's our director. And I love.
I love Pat so well, I'm always just like. I'll talk with them a lot, too, depending on. I talk their ears off. They're probably like, Piper, oh, my God.
Grant Beery:Well, I know. I know Pat is really into his New York Times games, so.
Piper Shaw:So is Ryan.
JT Brown:They both are.
Grant Beery:They. Have they roped you into that yet?
Piper Shaw:They have both. They both talk to me and show me them, and I just. I don't like me on my phone. I'm not. I don't. I am not like a phone person. It's hard to explain.
Like, I have 275 unread text messages right now.
JT Brown:My Lord, that is how many of.
Grant Beery:Those are from us?
Piper Shaw:I also have 16 calls. I.
JT Brown:Very popular person, apparently.
Grant Beery:No kidding.
Piper Shaw:I don't think it's. I don't know if it's. I think it's just my neglect.
JT Brown:More than that.
Piper Shaw:I. My poor friends are like, my. Literally, one of my really good friends text me the other day. She's like, did you die?
She's texted me, like, five times in a row over the last three weeks. I'm like, I mean, I think we.
Grant Beery:All have that friend.
Piper Shaw:I just. Well, no, she's not. She's just being a good friend. She just wants to talk to me.
Grant Beery:Oh, no. I mean, a friend like you. A friend like you that doesn't answer their phone.
Piper Shaw:You ain't never had a friend like me.
JT Brown:I have one for you here, Piper. It's from Vess. And what's your favorite player or coach interview moment?
Piper Shaw:There's a lot, to be honest, I will say, I think this year, like, there was the intermission interview with Yanni Gourde when we were in Chicago where things were not going well, and he was very honest and blunt about that, and it caught me a little bit off guard, like, in the moment, because usually they're not maybe that forthcoming about, like, how they truly feel. Not so it caught me off guard in the moment and.
But, like, in reflecting to it, it was great because, you know, the purpose of those interviews are to get answers and insight from them for the fans. Like, it's not for me. It's not like. Like, I'm trying to ask questions that, like, people at home want to know About. Right. So it's like, what.
What are the. What are they wondering about and what kind of insight can they offer in this moment?
And so in that way, that was a great interview because of Yanni, not necessarily because of me, but that is definitely like a memorable moment. So even though it seems like it was negative, I think that was a great one.
Another one is when we were in the playoffs and we won in Colorado, and I interviewed Grubauer post game, who had a great game, and we had a little mini salmon that a fan had brought. And so he came out to do the post game win interview.
And I had this like, little stuffed salmon and I was like, well, I know we're not at home, but we still have a fish for you to eat. And I, like, gave it to him on camera and I know that, like, that made him smile. So it set, like a nice tone for the interview moving forward.
And fans liked it. And then another one that also stands out in my mind is clinching the playoffs at home. Jordan Eberle with the bench interview.
Just that moment and the energy in the building. And you could just tell obviously how much it meant to him.
And I, you know, I have, like pictures from that and it's just like huge smiles in on every single face in the building, including both of ours. So those would be like the ones that, like, knee jerk reaction that stick out in my mind.
JT Brown:Yeah, those are all good ones. And I mean, that's why I directed it towards you. You have a lot more experience and more to choose from.
I don't do a whole lot of the, the actual interviews, but I mean, it has to be for me this year. The dog pants.
Piper Shaw:Yes.
JT Brown:Like that. To me, that was a great. I mean, it was awesome to ask those guys the questions.
Obviously take it to a, an interesting, you know, not necessarily something about hockey, but. Yeah, something that I don't really do a whole lot of, but that one to me was a lot. It was a lot of fun to ask the guys.
And I think the best part about it wasn't even just asking, you know, the players that we ended up having answer it on the podcast. But then after we had asked everyone else in the locker room, kind of like, what are you guys talking about? What do you want?
And then we ended up having to.
Piper Shaw:Ask everybody in the locker room, including Coach Bilesbo.
JT Brown:Yeah, so it was more of a, like, that was kind of a cool moment, cool experience where again, the initial was, hey, we got to get these three players and ask them these questions. And it kind of turned into everybody wanting to be asked this silly question. So that was fun.
Piper Shaw:Yeah, that was fun. That was, that was a good one. Um, all right, next question here comes from karaoke on Blue Sky. Okay, I think this is going to be a good one.
It says, I think it'd be cool to learn about here. Examples of the non broadcast communication. When JT is between the benches, is he yapping with the control room? What's that sound like?
Also, does Edzo really drink as many strawberry milkshakes as the broadcast implies? Inquiring lines would like to know. There's so much, so much that goes on to make a broadcast possible.
It honestly most days feels ridiculously unfair to me personally that like we are the people that people see and know and I understand because we are the forward facing. But the number of people and skill and talent that it takes to put on not just a broadcast, but the production that we have is massive.
There's, if you don't know about like television trucks, it's a whole thing.
There's a lot of great coverage of the launching of the Kraken Hockey Network by Ryan Shaber and Pat Brown over the summer and you know, Rob and all of the other people involved as well. So sports video group SVG has like a really great long feature if you want to learn more about that.
But in terms of the communication, jt, I feel like we can talk about the between the benches specifically for you because you're going in and out a lot.
JT Brown:Yeah, I mean the main, a lot of communication is to Ryan Shaver. There's talk back buttons. So I'm not in Jon and Edzo's ear while I'm saying, hey, yeah, I really like that play that Mahura just did. Let's mark it.
Maybe we'll put a pack together. And it kind of gives them something. Whether it's later on in that period, later on in the game or maybe coming back from a break.
Things that I like and, or I want to see. And I feel like the, the best part obviously is being on this broadcast. We have a great team as well.
And they start to, you know, year one, it's like, I got. You got to tell them everything, you know, I got. I'm new to this as well, so trying to figure out the types of plays that I'm looking for in a game.
And now they do such a good job as well.
Piper Shaw:They know what you kind of would like to see.
JT Brown:No.
Piper Shaw:1.
JT Brown:Yeah, what I asked for on a play or, you know, hey, I Want to go see this replay again? And they'll rewind the tape on the. The monitor for me so I can take a look at something just to double check.
And you do a lot of communication back and forth about, you know, different plays. But there's also times too, where they can help you. There's times where, you know, it's a scramble in front of the net that you don't see.
And then they'll be communicating to me as the replay is going to go, hey, that was a McCann chance, you know, went off the blocker. And they'll give you little tips where you might not have missed it or you might have missed that opportunity or might have seen things.
So there's definitely a lot of communication when it comes to the truck going back and forth. You know, for communication between the three of us that are on, you know, a lot of it's just feel right.
You have to, you know, there will be certain times where it's like, hey, in the talk back, hey, I really got a good point about this. So I want to make sure we can. We bring it up at the next whistle. And then like, that's like a more organized, hey, JT's gonna talk.
Let's hold off whatever the. Whatever is going on. He's got the point he wants to make, but for the most part, it's all just a feeling.
You know, you find that little space of time and if you have something, if you don't, then you go on.
And I think that, you know, Edzo and I, especially when it comes to like replays, I think it just, it seems like it almost goes every other at times, right? Unless you have really something you want to. To put in, but you just kind of find that balance of going back and forth.
And you know, I think when we're all three on a road building, there's different times because then you can see we're all in the same booth right next to each other. And it might be a tap or, you know, I'm watching, you know, John or Edzo as they're talking and they can tell like, hey, you know, hey, I gotta.
I got something I want to say here. Or edge of the same thing will tell me like, I got a little piece of something, a little nugget that I want to throw in at the end of it.
And you can tell just based on, you know, a hand motion or what they're. If they're looking at you exactly how. So it's a lot of nonverbal communication when it comes to the three broadcasters.
But the communication being the truck is huge. Right. That's a. It makes your life that much easier when you are communicating back and forth. Now.
It's definitely different to be able to organize your thoughts, continue with those thoughts. Meanwhile, you have somebody talking in your left ear only you still have the rest of the game sounds.
And John and Edzo, they'll be talking and so you can hear a little bit of everything.
So that's, at least for me, that was one of the hardest parts when learning and coming into this my first year was trying to keep your thought when there's other things going on.
Piper Shaw:Yeah.
JT Brown:So it's a process.
Piper Shaw:That's what I was going to say too, is that it's. Even though we are broadcasters, there's a lot of listening in addition to talking.
And it literally, it cannot be understated to me the importance of your A1. Who is the. The person in charge of all of the audio and the. The pan, the paths and the channels and all of that. We have an awesome A1 here, Andy.
Shout out. Because I have. I've worked with a ton of producers on a ton of broadcasts and a ton of different sports in. In my career.
And having an A1, who knows or you're able to communicate with. Of how you want it to sound in your ears. I know that's something that's really important to John Forsland as well. Like, it's.
It cannot be understated, especially for, like, for me. Like, I do a lot of things. We call it, like offline.
So they're just taped right before they run, so they look like they're live and they're almost live. But usually it's because, you know, for the players, so that we don't have to have them, like, wait until the perfect window. Right.
So we just like tape it offline.
But to do that, I can't have, you know, you and John and Eddie talking in my ears at the same time as I'm trying to talk to them and hear the producer. Because otherwise I would have like five different things in my voice. So I wear these in ears. That's what we call them.
But they're basically like headphones and they're noise canceling.
So if you ever see me sitting outside the Kraken's locker room and you're trying to talk to me and I'm not responding to, it's because I literally can't hear you because they're noise canceling, which is for a purpose.
Because also, as you know, JT when we're doing hits outside the locker room and, like, the players are lining up or there's people, it's really hard to focus on your thought and what you need to say and getting it across. I shouldn't say really, really hard, but not having a bunch of noise on top of it is very important.
And I would imagine that you've had this before, but I've had it, you know, countless times in my career where I'm trying to talk and I'm getting things said in my ears while I am trying to speak, and.
And it's very hard to have, like, a soundbite playing back in my ears or to hear, you know, Edzo just, like, talking to John, like, offline while I'm doing something, because things aren't, like, channeled properly and organized properly, and we never, ever, ever have that problem at home because Andy rocks.
And so to me, that's a huge part of the communication, too, is just, like, making it so that it is the way that you need it to sound and hear or listen, you know?
JT Brown:So I don't want to forget about the second portion of the question as well, about the strawberry milkshakes. I've never actually seen Edzo have a strawberry milkshake. I love strawberry milkshakes as well. Those are top tier. But love's a good dessert, though.
Like, I see a couple, you know, go out to dinner and have a nice little cake. He does ice cream and stuff. So, like, I'm a dessert. Yeah.
Piper Shaw:Butter cake mastros.
JT Brown:Yeah. I always. If we're ever buying mastros, I am going for dessert. I always have to eat there.
But I will be placing it to go order for their gooey butter cake. But, no, definitely a dessert lover. But, you know, at the same time, I haven't seen the milkshake. Maybe. Maybe that's, you know, something we'll.
Grant Beery:Well, if Edzo's anything like his son, our former host, Nick Olczyk, who I had the pleasure of going to Coachella with for a couple days. That man loves desserts. If it runs in the family, I think it's. I think it's pretty true.
Piper Shaw:So, yeah, they both definitely do. I will say, though, I think Ed.
So he definitely is very, like, health conscious, though, too, because of his health history and also just, you know, being a former professional athlete.
So I do sometimes wonder if the reason he likes to talk about the milkshakes a lot on air is because he wants one, but he's like, I probably shouldn't have one. So he just Kind of thinks about it. You know, he's, like, verbalizing it a little. I don't know.
JT Brown:And maybe to get Johnny going a little bit, but. No, I mean, who doesn't love strawberry milkshakes?
Piper Shaw:I love. Or.
JT Brown:I mean, it doesn't have to be strawberry. It could be chocolate, vanilla. But a milkshake, like, awesome. Only thing that I would say is better than a milkshake. A root beer float.
Piper Shaw:Oh, really? I mean, I like a root beer float, but I'm surprised that you like that more.
JT Brown:Oh, yeah.
Grant Beery:I don't eat a lot of sweets, so if it's got to be really, really good. And strawberry milkshakes up there.
Piper Shaw:So I'd rather have, like, an actual dessert like that than, like, candy. I know that's jt. I know it's controversial. I'm sorry. But you know how I feel.
Grant Beery:Glass of bourbon. That's my favorite dessert.
Piper Shaw:All right.
Grant Beery:It's got sugar in it.
Piper Shaw:It's right. Right to the hard stuff. Alrighty. We had another question in here, I think that related to broadcasting. Oh, this is. I mean, this one does.
I just figured we could stay on topic a little bit here. This one comes from Joe Milk. Milky Joe, it says. Interesting handle there on Twitter.
He says, if you weren't in broadcasting, slash, jt, if you had not played, what would you be doing?
JT Brown:Oh, we did just have this conversation not that long ago on the bus. At least I did with Everett.
Piper Shaw:And I think I try to tune you guys out.
JT Brown:Probably a good thing at times. I think that's a tough question because that's really all I've ever done was play hockey.
And then obviously moving into this wasn't necessarily what I went to school or thought was ever going to happen. Obviously the whole focus was hockey. Obviously. This is amazing.
How many times do you get an opportunity to just talk about the sport that you got to play? And I think I would have been a good gym teacher in, like, middle school because I just remember, like, all the dodgeball games.
Although I did find out that they don't have dodgeball in school anymore. So what? Yeah, I found that out and I wasn't very happy. So that one kind of took that away. Like, I don't know.
I thought about being a realtor at one point, too. None of them are as cool as what I do now, so there's really not going to be a good answer.
I didn't really think about it, so that's probably the best way to answer that. Obviously, going through, like, juniors, then into college. I Mean, the whole goal for me was to get to the National Hockey League.
And that's kind of where my thought process was. Especially even, you know, through college and picking my classes was more of electives for the two years that I was there.
And you don't say, yeah, I would have had to. Would have had to. If I went back for another year, I would have had to actually declare my major and figure out what I was going to do at that point.
But, you know, for me, it was more focusing on hockey. But I think gym teacher would have been fun. Dodgeball era gym teacher.
Grant Beery:Yeah.
JT Brown:I don't know. Like, maybe I think I could be a good realtor, like, get to make my own hours. I feel like that's a big key in what I'd want to do.
Piper Shaw:You just want to be a gym teacher so that you can shout out kids, shout out, shout at kids. If you can dodge a wrench, you.
JT Brown:Can dodge a ball 100%. It would have been awesome. Yeah, Would have been awesome.
Piper Shaw:So for me, it's kind of similar in a. In a different way is that, like, I knew that I was going to go into broadcasting from a very young age.
And I have been strategically making decisions for my entire life since I was 15 years old, or not my entire life, but Since I was 15, every single step that I have made in my life has been to be sitting in this chair right now, like, my entire life. I went to college early because I could, Because I was a good student.
I started taking classes that I knew would fulfill the science credits that I needed for college when I was still in high school. Yeah. So I. I went to college when I was 16 because I was like, okay. And I also knew I was gonna be paying for my own college.
So it was important to me if I went early as a high school student, which I did full time, like, on campus and everything, it was free. So When I was 16 and 17, I was taking 21 credit semesters at St.
Cloud State University so that I could take as many classes as I physically could while it was free.
And then also what was nice is that then it freed up a lot of my time when I was older in college to focus on, like, the broadcasting program because St. Cloud State randomly has a Division 1 hockey team and a very, very good broadcasting program.
And that is kind of what it's, like, known for, is those two things, which is very random. Also. That's my hometown, so. Also kind of random on that front as well.
I did not want to continue going there Because I did not want to go to college in the place that, like, I grew up at all. But I knew that this is what I was gonna do, and so it was really hard.
And I knew that I was, like, probably not gonna make any money for a very long time in this career, because news broadcasters are paid, like, 13 an hour. So I was like, okay, I need to, like, make a smart financial decision, starting when I was, like, 15 as well. So that is why I did that.
And then, I mean, I don't need to go into my whole, like, thing. But I. My point is, I. I have never really considered, like, doing anything else, because this is what I always wanted to do. I. I don't know.
JT Brown:Podcaster. Yeah.
Grant Beery:I mean, but that's fulfilling your destiny.
Piper Shaw:That's still, like, a broadcaster. Like, I thought. I thought about, like, being a lawyer, perhaps, because I. I mean, and I grew up in a family of very, very smart people.
My dad is a very prominent data scientist for reed Elsevier and LexisNexis. And so we had a lot of, like. A lot of, like, debates, a lot of debating and conversation like that in my family.
And everybody always said I would be a good lawyer.
So, like, I kind of thought about that, but I didn't think that the things I would be talking about every day would, like, wear well on my spirit kind of a thing. So I was like, I don't know, but I thought about that. That's pretty much it.
Like, I just kind of was like, I knew that this is what I was going to do, and I knew that I was going to make it happen. And that's just kind of my attitude in life in general. I.
I firmly believe that I am capable of doing anything that I want to do, no matter what that is. I may have to shift what that expectation is or how long that will take or what sacrifices will have to be made. But, yeah, so I didn't.
I was like, I don't need a backup plan.
JT Brown:Yeah, I think I have been in trouble. Had the hockey thing not worked out, I put all the eggs in one basket.
Piper Shaw:I did, too.
JT Brown:And it ended up working, so we're thankful for that.
Grant Beery:Talk about trouble. I was thinking about going into photojournalism for a while, so I really loved photography.
I was on my school's yearbook and the school paper and everything like that, and I really loved it. And then that's kind of where newspapers. Like, when I was in college is where newspapers started to kind of start dying off.
And I was like, oh, well, maybe I should figure out a different career. And then I had resisted doing it for a long time because it's what my mom did. And I was like, well, I want to go into the family business, right? And.
And then I just realized, oh, no, I just. I just need to do it. I'm good at it. I like it. I really enjoy it. And it's led me to hockey, so all around worked out.
Piper Shaw:So I. I think that was my thing with broadcasting, too, is, like, people, like, literally told me my whole life, they're like, you should be a news anchor.
Like, why? Like, they, like. And it was like, not one person ever, like, questioned that. They were like, yep, that makes sense. Do that. And I was like, okay.
But I also enjoyed it.
JT Brown:So, anyway, I'll keep on broadcasting. And we got a lot of questions more directed towards you, Piper. Where do you watch the game while it's happening?
And who chooses the player you speak to during the first intermission? Why is it never a goalie? And this is from Brookie.
Piper Shaw:Okay. Shout out, Brookie. So I watch the game off of a monitor the size of a laptop screen sitting outside of the locker room, whether home or away.
And, you know, the one great thing about national games is that I get to go watch the game actually live.
Like, when we played San Jose, that was a national broadcast, and I was in the stands, and I was like, gosh, you see the game so much differently, and, like, the con, like, just the visual of the time and the space and the plays, it looks so different from the perspective that I have. So sometimes that's kind of a bummer, but I.
But it has to be like that because of the nature of my job and that I have to be in this location to do the interview.
So, anyways, I'm not complaining about that, but it is just, like, I get jealous every time I come up to the booth during the intermissions and I look down on the ice, always, I'm like, I'm so jealous of you and John up here. Like, you just get to watch the actual ice in person and all the fans in the building, too. Who decides the intermission interview?
That is a conversation between me, our two producers, Ryan Shaber, Scott Malone, and the Kraken PR staff and communications staff. It's usually pretty obvious, though.
Like, usually it's like the person who's, like, scored a goal or just, like, whatever the story of that period is. So, you know, if they had three great PKs, like, okay, we want to talk to a penalty killer, right?
Or if There is a clear part of the game that is not going well and that you would like an answer for or to address, then that's the kind of person.
So just knowing, you know, the responsibilities of the different players and, like, what they're good at speaking to as well is something, you know, I know that if I want to talk about, like, transition game or power play, like, Vince Dunn is a great person to go to for that, so. Or penalty kill, like Brandon Tan, a great person to talk to you about that. So it just kind of. It just depends on, like, what it is.
In my opinion, it doesn't always have to be the goal scorer if. Especially if it's not like an incredible play or like something crazy. So it's that. It's usually pretty, like, obvious, though, to be honest.
Like, it'll be like. Like there's like two or three options.
Sometimes we have to, like, pivot on the floor, fly really quickly because, like, a player might need to run and get treatment quick or, you know, whatever it might be. But. So that is how that is decided. The reason it is never a goalie is because, one, you don't want to interrupt, like, a goalie's mindset and frame.
And also, that's not just our broadcast. That is hockey in general. That is just like a rule. Like, you just don't talk to the goalies during the game.
I've seen people say before that it would be fun to, like, have like, the backup goalie, like, come on and do something, but it's also just like, that's not like they can't really speak to in the same ways the moments of the game because they're, you know, not necessarily in that play in that moment. So it's kind of about, like, who can theoretic, theoretically, hopefully add the most value. And so that's kind of the. The process behind that.
But, yeah, that's. That's not like a me thing. You will never have. We will not have a goalie on and during and intermission unless.
Unless something crazy happens or PR or.
JT Brown:I mean, you just don't see it. Yeah, they're basically off limits when it comes to that.
I don't know that I've ever seen intermission, but I believe it was last week, Flurry in Montreal. Obviously it's his last season. It was pregame, which is something you still don't see. It was national with sportsnet.
He did a bench interview, obviously end up playing that game as well. But that was, I mean, that different.
Piper Shaw:Though, because it's like an iconic player, an iconic moment. Point.
JT Brown:Nothing in Montreal like it was. That is very different. But that's like the only one that I can think of like off the top of my head.
Obviously it was very recent, but you just don't see goalies. Yeah.
Piper Shaw:And a national broadcast gets like, they get a pull their weight or like pull get what they want a little bit more than like the everyday broadcast. You know, like we're every single day or every single game, you know, doing these shows versus like national, they.
They sometimes get their way a little bit more. So.
Grant Beery:Yeah.
JT Brown:Question that might cause a little bit of controversy is whoever wants to answer the pineapple on pizza question. Big Burky Energy.
Grant Beery:Well, I'll go first. I love.
Piper Shaw:That's from Big Burky Energy, for the record.
Grant Beery:Yeah, yeah.
Piper Shaw:I wouldn't be surprised if he liked pineapple on pizza though.
Grant Beery:I. I love pineapple on pizza. In fact, the best pizza of all time is pineapple, pepperoni and jalapeno sweet meat heat. Okay, so good.
Piper Shaw:Okay. That is actually one of my favorite combinations as well. I'm a big pineapple on pizza person, as is my husband.
I'm not a big like just traditional Hawaiian pizza. I know. Okay. I won't say anything, but that's more just because I prefer pepperoni over Canadian bacon. So.
But yes, if I can only have a three topping pizza. I love a jalapeno pineapple and pepperoni pizza pizza.
JT Brown:So we're all three in agreeance that pineapple goes on pizza. Cuz I love Hawaiian pizza.
Piper Shaw:Yeah, I know you do.
JT Brown:That is definitely a go to don't get it as much anymore because the kids don't really like that. But if I get to choose on my own, like I'm probably going to pick that.
Grant Beery:Okay, I think we got time for one more question and if you'll allow me to pick one from the multitude that we got here in the Calgary game, when the Flames goal was upheld, Oleksiak still went to the box for hooking. Usually when a goal is scored with a pending penalty, a delayed penalty, the penalty is erased. Did that rule change? This is from Steve Banachi.
And what Steve is getting at here is a kind of a wrinkle in the rules that I think JT would be good for you to explain so people understand what's going on.
JT Brown:Yeah, the difference. So what you're used to is in a five on five situation, a delayed penalty is called. The team ends up scoring. Right.
The penalty now goes away because they scored. The difference in this situation And I probably should have came prepared for this question with the exact rule and the.
And how, like the number wise. But when you're short handed, so you had the player in the box. McCann had a double minor for roughing on the play. Bjorkstrand was serving it.
They were short handed on the opportunity already. Then the delayed penalty happened. Obviously, you know, the puck ended up going to the net. Challenge. We go on from that. The goal was scored.
It is the current penalty that Bjorkstrand was serving. I don't remember the exact time left, but if there's time still on that penalty, it is now that penalty that leaves the box.
And now Alexiak, who took the delayed penalty, goes to the box, ended up getting into the 5 on 3 situation based off the challenge and not getting the challenge. So you get the bench penalty there. So it's a little bit of a nuance. It's really just because they were already shorthanded.
There's still time on that penalty. And the penalty that's in the box is the one that gets removed, not Alexia's penalty.
So Alexia gets his full two minutes back in the box and you negated the rest of bjorkshrand serving for McCann.
Grant Beery:Perfect. All right, awesome. Thank you for that. Thank you, Steve, for the question.
Piper Shaw:We still have so many more questions to answer, so hopefully we will get to them on a future episode. But if you ever have questions, you can submit them to us.
Grant Beery:Where Grant, you can submit them to signals@seattlekraken.com you can go to seattlekraken.com/podcast, submit them there. Or if you listen to the end of this episode, we have a phone number where you can leave a voice message as well.
Piper Shaw:So awesome. All right, well, with that, that's gonna wrap up our mailbag here. And now here is our conversation with Brock McGillis.
Well, Brock, welcome to the show. Welcome to Signals from the Deep. You're here visiting the Kraken organization this week. How's it been?
Brock McGillis:It's been awesome. I think it's. This city is so cool. And this organization is too. Like, it's.
I work with so many teams, so many groups everywhere, and you just, you hear that groups are good or this, that or the other, but when you really experience it and you see that it's authentic and real, it's. You can feel it, you know, and. And I felt that here all week. It's been so welcoming, so supportive.
I feel like this city is more Canadian than Canada, truly.
Piper Shaw:In what way?
Brock McGillis:It's just so progressive. So Open, so welcoming. It just feels like such a inclusive, supportive space for everyone.
And I've never seen so many people purple hair, which I think is really cool. But people are just embracing who they are and unapologetically so. And that's so damn cool to see and so exciting. And it just.
When I get to places like that, I'm like, oh, this, this is a safe place. I can be here and not have to think about anything. So, yeah, it's nice.
Piper Shaw:We're the first stop of your US Tour, is that correct?
Brock McGillis:First I've spoken along the US over the years, but first Shift Makers Tour US stop ever. So.
Piper Shaw:Okay, well, awesome.
So just to kind of start things off then, can you just tell us a little bit bit about the Shift Makers Tour and just some of the work that you're doing?
Brock McGillis:Oh, I thought you want to talk about last night's game.
Piper Shaw:Oh, well, we already talked about that. We already talked about that.
Brock McGillis:But we could.
Piper Shaw:We could get your thoughts as well.
Brock McGillis:No, I. So Shift Makers is this crazy idea I had. I've realized that I'm a bit of a masochist. I like to torture myself.
So I decided a couple of years ago that I was going to go to over 100 hockey teams in 100 days across Canada. Yeah. And I did it last year. 23, 24 season was year one. I went to 103 teams in 100 days and it was the seven NHL cities in Canada in their vicinity.
Then I was like, all right, let's make it bigger. So I went coast to coast this year in Canada over 27 cities, 140 teams in about 80 something days. I haven't slept in three months. Yeah.
So it's like, yeah, I feel like it's aged me 30 years. Both my face and physically, I'm just in pain.
And then I was like, hey, let's get even crazier and let's bring it to the US So why not go wild and really torture myself?
And now we're doing a US version and kind of like last year in Canada, it's going to be a smaller version of it and I'm estimating somewhere between 50 and 75 clubs, which is pretty good considering we're starting in February and the season's almost over. And then next year we'll grow and scale it up the same way and start Canada a little earlier. Start at. I want to miss winter in Canada.
Like that's my goal. So start in September and. And then by November, get to the US and then Cherry Pick where I am in what months based off weather and.
Piper Shaw:And take care of yourself, hopefully in the process as well.
Brock McGillis:Summer's for that. I can sleep all summer.
Piper Shaw:That's a good point. That is a good point. Just could you share with folks who might not be familiar, like, what, what is the work? What are kind of some of the sessions?
What are the goals of what you're doing on your tour?
Brock McGillis:Yeah. So when I first started doing work in this space in public speaking, it was my story.
It was just about my life being the first openly gay men's professional hockey player and sharing my journey to coming out and whatnot. But then it became about rallying people to create shifts. And those shifts, big or small, can have a ripple effect and have impact.
And I tell a story in sessions there. When I retired from playing, I moved back.
I'm from Sudbury, Ontario, close to where Lexi's from, where I used to go North Bay all the time and work with their teams. So I know North Bay well. We're from the same neck of the woods and I was working with hockey players up there and I was working about 100 a day.
And I was afraid that if they knew I was gay, they wouldn't want to work with me, especially the guys. So I hit it. And for about five years I thought I was doing a really good job. And then one day I got a phone call from a hockey mom.
She said, I want to set you up on a date. I just went, oh no. Like, what do I do? What do I say? How do I get out of this? And then I got curious and I was like, what's her name? She said, steve.
I came to find out all my athletes knew I was gay. And instead of saying something, I observed their behaviors.
And I started to notice anytime they were would say something homophobic, they'd apologize to me. And didn't matter if it was a pro breakdown or a kid. And I started thinking, maybe we're creating a shift here.
I thought, or maybe they're just like me. I'm one of the boys, right? We go on the ice and I chirp them. We go in the gym and I bench press all of them.
And if you're listening, that's the most important part. But maybe they're going out in public and using slurs. Until one day I wasn't there. And I had a sprint coach working with some athletes on a track.
And at the end of two hour workout, he told them they had 10 more sprints. And a younger player looked at the sprint Coach and, and said, this is so gay.
And an older player who was in the OHL about to turn pro looked at the younger guy and said, we don't say that here. Give me 50 push ups. And that became something all my athletes adopted.
And then they used their influence as hockey players to take that with them where they went. Before I knew people I didn't even know were doing push ups. So that guy that day created a shift.
He also created a shift in me where he realized the impact I could have because of that guy. Essentially, he was one of the big catalysts of me coming out because of that guy, I do the work I do now because of that guy.
Thousands of people have come to me over the years who have been struggling, and not just with LGBTQ related stuff, but in general, I've been able to help them get support, you know, in some cases in life and death situations. That guy that day, the ripple effect of his small little action saved lives. So we can all create those.
And then I teach them how humanize issues, the environment we create. And that's mostly language and then breaking conformity. We conform a little bit in this culture.
Piper Shaw:You don't say in hockey culture.
Brock McGillis:Just, just, just a tad. So recently I've pushed this even further where now I challenge their courage and their bravery.
So when I'm talking about language, first type is bullying. Then those off the cuff remarks and then laughter. And I'm like, why do you laugh? Like, to fit in this. Adults. Like, this is.
I'm doing corporate sessions and they're saying the same thing, like, to fit in. I'm like, what happens if you don't laugh? Well, you might be the next person targeted specifically in a locker room too.
Like, even more so than in society. I'm like, what if nobody laughed? It would stop. I'm like, so you can create a shift in your space just by not laughing?
I'm like, but in hockey, we call ourselves a family or brothers or sisters or some analogy like that. I'm like, you're laughing at things you don't find funny because you're afraid your family's gonna bully you. It's messed up.
Piper Shaw:What kind of relationship is that?
Brock McGillis:It's surface level. It's bs. It's fake. That's not real family. I'm like, but you tell me you're brave hockey players.
You battle in the corner, you fight in front of the net, you block shots. You are these gladiators on ice. Is that brave? I'm like, no. And then we talked about Body language and then silence as a form of language.
And when I talk about silence, I tell them a story of a player who came up to me who experienced anti Semitism, some of his teammates, swastikas in his hotel mirror. And he goes, you inspired me to tell them how it made me feel. But here's the reality of the story.
Three players did it, but seven stood around and watched. So I went back in with the team and the player shared, he humanized that the impact it had on him.
But I got to share the language and the silence because, you know, the seven players who watched, well, if, if that story went public, the, the journalist isn't going to differentiate between three who did and the seven who watched. They're all going to be labeled the same. But you sat there and you watched something you knew was wrong and you did it and didn't say a word.
Is that this brave, tough hockey culture I've been hearing about?
JT Brown:You know, you see it all, all the time and totally. It's definitely a interesting perspective as far as the hockey culture is concerned.
And we talked about, you know, being conforming and you know, not necessarily wanting to say or not wanting to be that, that outcast within the, the locker room and just trying to do whatever it means to fit in. And again, that's where the important part is. You're talking about the people that are watching and they have an opportunity to step up.
And obviously when you're talking about being a shift changer and making that culture switch, it does come from a lot of the people that are watching it around are watching the things that do happen.
And that kind of leads to the question, do you feel like you have to change your message slightly when you're talking to say, the kids and obviously wanting to create a more inclusive space in hockey, obviously at a youth level so that it continues to grow. Those players might be the next, you know, NHL.
And then that's the trickle down effects versus having to, you know, go into it maybe a corporate setting where not everybody maybe understands the sports side of it. You know, they're in for the marketing or they're in the finance side.
Do you feel like you have to change that at all or does your message still kind of go along the same path?
Brock McGillis:So I find that the team aspect, the family stuff is deeper in the locker room setting. Right.
And there's more conformity in the locker room setting, whereas the corporate side, there, there's been studies that show that the more you can bring your full self to work in corporate Culture, the happier you're going to be in, the happier you are, the more productive you are. So I still challenge them in a sense to be more themselves and not conform. I think it happens more.
Our culture, hockey culture itself, those locker room settings are so riddled with conformity. We spent so much time in there from the age of six, six, you know, it's five, six days a week.
From a very young age where you're with your 20 teammates and you're dressing the same, talking the same, walking the same. Most of the kids look the same, most are. Everyone's assumed to be straight and you have this rigid conformity and then they move away to play junior.
And then in junior, you're spending seven days a week, day and night with your teammates. It's all you hang out with because it's all, you know, and they're coming from similar cultures all over and it's being reinforced even more.
And then that leads to professional. So there is a rigidness that it's a tougher nut to crack in those spaces. But they actually, when I challenge their courage, they go deeper. So we do.
The third way you can break or, you know, create a shift is breaking conformity. And I'm like, you call yourselves a family, brothers or sisters, yet in guys hockey locker rooms, there's four things you can talk about.
Women, video games, partying, sports, music, as long as it's rapper country.
Piper Shaw:And it's so true.
Brock McGillis:And now gambling is a big one, even with kids, which is wild. Like 15 year olds are like, yeah, I gamble every day.
Piper Shaw:And I'm like, I'm in DraftKings.
Brock McGillis:Literally. Literally. And so I'm like, yet you call yourselves brothers. I'm like, I don't know about you, but my family knows way more about me than that.
I'm like, so I'm telling you right now. Tell me something you typically wouldn't tell your teammates. I said, and you have two answers. You have a surface, level answer. I love cooking.
I make grilled cheese. Cool. Nobody cares. Like legit. Nobody does.
Or you have your real one, the deep one, the brave one that you're afraid to share in front of the boys or girls. And since I just started challenging their courage, they're sharing that. I had a player stand up in a room and go, I have a stutter.
And you all make fun of me to the point that I don't want to speak in public.
I had another player, top scorer his age in Canada, he goes, he stands up in tears and goes, you guys believe me, to the point that I don't want to come to the rink. I hate hockey and want to quit. He goes, I feel like I have no friends here. I'm like, how many of you hate getting chirped?
How many of you feel bullied by your teammates? Every hand in every room goes up. We're eating each other alive.
So how do we create inclusive spaces for LGBTQ or bipoc or women in men's spaces, et cetera, when straight white kids are eating each other alive, you know, we need to get vulnerable with each other and create psychologically safe spaces where these players can share. Indigenous kids stand up and go, I pretend I'm okay with the jokes, but I hate them.
And then there was another team in the room and there was an indigenous player on the other team. He goes, I feel the same way. And it just keeps going and it's deep and it's powerful and it's weird.
It's sort of like Ted Lasso meets euphoria in the sense that we're doing all these wonderful things and slaps and jokes and then they end up bonding even more together.
But we have a little bit of that euphoria where everyone's crying for a half hour and like, and they're sharing some deep stuff like it, whether it's self harm or depression or different things. And it's been not cool for me.
It's tough, but it's been great that I've been able to then get them resources and work with their teams, their coaches, and have them work with the parents and get them support in their regions because they're struggling and they're not telling anyone.
Piper Shaw:So I'm curious, as somebody who is a little bit on the outside, but I feel very privileged to be in this conversation with both of you right now because you are both people who have stood up for your identities in locker rooms and throughout your careers in really difficult situations. What is the challenge? Like, what emotions were each of you kind of grappling with when you've had to encounter these conversations?
Obviously, you know, being courageous, but what is maybe the, the fear or maybe what might hold people back from being authentic about their truth and those struggles?
JT Brown:Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a, it's a tough spot because a lot of times you feel, I mean, the one thing is being alone, right? And not necessarily thinking that you have that support system.
And that's where you know those conversations and you have those hard conversations with a team and they start to know you. Beyond that, obviously, I Think that, you know, that shows that they're with you. Right. And that they have your back.
And I think, you know, for me, one of the things obviously, is not everybody had to agree with the stance that I was taking, but I thought that it was powerful in a sense that we don't have to agree, but they also understand why I'm doing it and allowed me to say my piece. And, you know, for me, there is the worry, right, about, you know, hey, is this going to affect my playing career?
Is, you know, what is everybody else going to think? What's going to be said online, obviously comments online to try not to read everything that goes out.
But there's been some nasty things that obviously have been said. And you worry about that. I worry about my kids, what their future looks like.
And, you know, eventually it kind of came to a point where just it was something that I had to do.
And, you know, for me, again, I think a big portion of that is obviously just knowing myself, that it was the right thing to do and to be true to myself and obviously be able to look back at my kids at one point and, you know, say that, you know, I did this for you.
I want to create a more inclusive space within hockey for people who look like myself and, you know, just give them something so they know the players that are playing now that somebody's thinking about them. Right.
And I think that's a tough spot as well, where you just think that nobody cares about, you know, whatever the issue may be, because it's not being spoken about, you know, just to let everybody know that, you know, the hockey world does care, at least that I care, and, you know, wanted to be in that moment. Obviously, it came with some tough times and some hard days and hard conversations afterwards.
But, you know, at the end of the day, you don't trade it in because the future is what you're trying to change. Right. And in that moment, yeah, it was hard.
But I think as you, I've moved past that and been able to obviously dissect and reflect on everything as well.
The most important part is just trying to create, you know, this game that I love and we all love so much, you know, want everybody to have the same opportunity to love this game.
Brock McGillis:Yeah. I mean, I still remember when you raised your fist and how powerful of a moment that was and gives me goosebumps to think about today.
And I remember, I think we spoke not long after that. I reached out to you and, you know, it was like, wow. And in my mind, having empathy for Also recognizing that having.
It's, it's one thing to have the courage to do it, it's another thing to know like I'm standing on an island alone and I don't know who is going to feel what kind of way after.
And, and you know, it's why I didn't come out as a player who, like, you're afraid you're going to lose friends, opportunities, different things, you're afraid you're going to lose your life. And hockey as hockey players is especially elite hockey players. Like hockey is your identity for a very long time.
It's what you're known as what I was like Brock McGillis hockey player, J.T. brown hockey player, you know what I mean? And you're a human being beyond that. And there's more to you than.
That's what I'm trying to get all these hockey players to realize because the more they can embrace themselves and the less likely they're going to be to judge or to be oppressive towards you or me or you as a woman in the space. And you know, and. But it takes time.
It takes people like yourselves being in the space and it takes visibility and it takes the willingness to stand up and show that courage and that bravery on an island alone. And the more that people do it.
But in the locker rooms when you're talking about like, you know, standing up in the room when things are said or done or whatever, the onus shouldn't be on the black kid or the gay kid or anyone else. Like that room is, you know, 95% white and straight.
And that's where we need courage for players to stand up and say, no, we don't say that here, give me 50 push ups or whatever it is for your team. Because that onus shouldn't be on the marginalized person to constantly have to police lock her. It's exhausting.
It's hard enough to play the sport as, you know, a person who's doesn't feel necessarily welcomed or doesn't see people like themselves in the space. But then on top of that, you have to be the person that's ensuring that it's good for you. That's too much.
That's why I look in my community and it's like, well, Gen Z is identifying as LGBTQ plus at 25%, yet we have one player in North America in professional hockey who's out. There's a reason for that.
And you know, and over the course of the history of the sport, there's him and me who have come out as professional players in North America, and there's two in Europe or three, I think, total. It's like, those numbers don't add up, but it's. Because how do you be the guy that stands up in the room and say, we're not saying that here.
Don't say that here. And then they're like, well, you're gay and you've just outed yourself.
Piper Shaw:Well, and particularly in men's hockey, too, obviously.
Brock McGillis:Of course. Yeah, yeah, I was talking more my lived experience or art rooms. But yeah, women. Women have paved the way.
Like, I say it all the time, without queer women, I wouldn't exist. And that's just a reality. Like, even when I was. I remember being a closeted. I'd stepped back from pro hockey because I was struggling so much.
And I was at Concordia in Montreal, and I came out to Donna Ringrose, who was the captain of the Concordia women's team, and she was dating Charlie Labonte at the time. And Charlie was on Team Canada and was one of the goalies. And they would come over to my place and I would hang out with them.
And they were two of the first people I told after Brendan Burke, Brian sun, and, you know, like, those people paved a way for me to exist.
And all the queer women in the sport who have come before me and currently exist and are unapologetically themselves are why I'm allowed to have a space.
Piper Shaw:What's been the most rewarding thing for you since you've taken this on as, like, active work and really, you know, like you said, you're, you know, you say you're like a masochist because you're working so hard on it. What, you know what. What is the feeling that you're getting of the reward from that work that you're doing? What are you seeing as things change?
Brock McGillis:Well, I can read you some messages. Oh, that would be awesome.
I think for me personally, one of the biggest things is people always told me when I started speaking publicly, well, you can't be everywhere, and I don't like that. I don't believe in that. I believe I can do everything, and I don't like being told no. And I think that's competitive athlete.
Piper Shaw:Yeah.
Brock McGillis:You know, so I'm like, oh, yeah. Oh, you're going to say no to me?
JT Brown:Okay, now watch me.
Brock McGillis:Yeah, watch me.
Piper Shaw:And.
Brock McGillis:And exactly. And here I am. I'm everywhere, and I won't stop.
And you can't stop me because I'm just going to keep going everywhere, and I won't Stop until it's done.
You know, like a kid said, the talk last night really helped me understand the accountability I have to hold my teammates as the leader of the team and kids, like, I want to let you know, this presentation left me really thinking about how I should be using my words and how it can affect others. We actually have data now that shows that they're recognizing that the impact of their language on everybody.
And we're doing surveys and different things. I had one another team said Brock, thank you so much, player, for coming today and talking to all the boys.
I'm not sure about the other group in the session, but our team got closer. We had a nice on a session right after and the change in the locker room vibe was an atmosphere was amazing.
I think it'll be important to implement these chats going forward. Thank you.
Piper Shaw:What does that mean to do to you? Like, what does that do for you to. To keep fueling you.
Brock McGillis:I live on caffeine and three hours of sleep a night and that. Yeah, like, so this gets me through those messages over and over and over, you know, and.
And not even just those positive ones, but like, and, you know, some deep, dark stuff where I've been able to help people get support and maybe it saved their life. My tour manager in Canada is a professional baseball player and he's a straight bro. Like, he's 6, 5, 2, 30, like just a big, lumbering baseball guy.
And he'll sit in the corner and cry in sessions.
Mark Frazier was on a call with the league yesterday that I was on, and he was talking about the tour and he came to some of the stops in Ottawa because he lives in Ottawa. And he's like, he said in front of everyone, he goes, like, I was sitting in the corner tearing up.
All these kids are talking, like, just having the, you know, those people see it and feel it and go, somebody's life might have been saved today. Beyond the like, let's make hockey, mark, like, somebody's life might be saved.
It's kind of cool and wild and surreal and you don't really realize it day to day when you're like, I got to get the next team and I got to get the sponsor. I need to find more sponsors and we need to get to the next place. And it's just nonstop, go, go, go. And. But when you sit back and think.
Piper Shaw:About it, it's just like, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
JT Brown:Well, I think that's like, it's really inspirational to actually hear those things. And I think a lot of times, especially As a player, get so caught up in the hockey side of it, right.
And trying to make, you know, the game more inclusive, you know, at the youth level, get more players playing the game. And obviously that's a huge focus and, you know, getting sticks into hands.
But when you hear the other side and you talk about, you know, actually saving somebody's life, it goes well beyond just the sports world or just the hockey side of it.
And to be able to, you know, hear those things obviously commend you for not only using your voice and what you've been able to do, but I think when you're able to take a step back away from. Even though hockey is what, you know, started to bring you here, and it started, you know, even for myself.
But at the end of the day, it's a cool thing to go back and look at it from a different perspective or gain a new perspective on it and, you know, not necessarily thinking about, you know, just creating a safe place within hockey might actually save somebody's life, versus a lot of times we look at it as we want to create a safe space so that you can play hockey. And while both are great, I think when you look at the impact of being able to save somebody's life, that's just.
It's hard to really put those words together on it. And I mean, I love the game of hockey and I focus so much on hockey, but hearing those is. It's. It's touching.
Brock McGillis:And let's take it a step further. What if hockey eventually becomes what saves somebody's life? Like, I look at hockey, and for many people, they can.
They, you know, kids, adults alike, like, if when you were playing, you're sitting there and, you know, whatever stress you had that day, you know, agents or spouse or whatever it is, doesn't matter what is family stuff. We have different stuff in our lives that come up. When you get to the rink, it can all disappear. For some, it doesn't.
It actually, you know, is oppressive and it's a reminder and it makes it worse. But what if it didn't?
What if that was an escape for that person for those three, four hours a night where everything goes away and it's just this beautiful, incredible sport? Like, what a way to live. Wouldn't that be a great way for the game?
It would actually save people's lives and they wouldn't even know that the sport is doing it. But it would. And it would make people happier and love coming to the rink. And this. This is as much.
And I'm talking about like straight white kids, as much as I'm talking about, you know, marginalized groups, because they're struggling too in there, right? It's hunter be hunted. It's a hunted or be hunted environment. And, and, and. And it's not just kids that works its way up, you know, and.
Piper Shaw:Well, and I always think of too, like, sports for a lot of people is community.
Like, whether you are a fan or that is where you work or you are in, you know, that locker room, sports is part of, like, a community and a community's identity as well.
And so there is something to be said about being able to not only be yourself, but also, like, creating that safe space within that community, because ultimately you want to grow that community and use it as a place to connect authentically, like, as a human being, you know, and if you feel like you have to hide something of yourself or just insecure in any way, like, whether it's just bullying that has, you know, like the chirps, you know, like you said, like, that's not the kind of environment that fosters positive community. And I feel like that is one of the best things about sports.
No matter whether, like I said, whether you're a player, whether you work there, whether you're a fan, whether you work at the restaurant across the street from the arena, that always has fans pouring in. Like, it should be the. A thing that connects people together.
And so it's disappointing, you know, if there are things in, in the way of that, because it should be such a beautiful, human thing, if that makes sense.
Brock McGillis:Yeah. And.
And to your point, like, it's always driven me nuts when I see men and when women talk about sports and you see men go, well, name five players, and it's like, really, like, don't we want people to enjoy this sport and be a part of it? Like, why? What are we gatekeeping? And why?
Piper Shaw:Like, community.
Brock McGillis:Yeah. Why and for who? Like, like, does it change your life if that woman likes hockey or sport? Like, what's. What did you get out of that?
Do you feel good about yourself? You feel like a bigger man? Like, I just don't understand it, and I've never understood it. And, you know, and it's bizarre.
Piper Shaw:Well, and that's why your work is so valuable and so important. And I'm glad that. That you're doing that work in multiple spaces too. Like you said, like with kids, with workplaces, in locker rooms, with.
With teams, because that's.
That's how it happens is one, you have to give people the information, but also Just create, even as hard as it is, a space where you can be where other people feel they can be courageous, even if they aren't a person that is in a marginalized group or, you know, just to make it, to make hockey for everybody. Right. Like, I'm very grateful for your work and for folks like you like doing the hard stuff because it has to be, it has to be done.
Brock McGillis:Well, thank you.
JT Brown:I do have another one. How do you think that the culture has changed or is it changing at all in the hockey landscape?
Like, if we take a look at maybe the last five to 10 years, as I always look at it, it's always a work in progress. I don't think the work is ever done.
But are you seeing a, I guess a positive impact, obviously, with talking to different kids or, you know, obviously going around the league and seeing different initiatives that have, you know, been started and continuing to grow? Do you see positive change? Obviously, I think there's still places to work on it. But are you seeing any change, like in your day to day here?
Brock McGillis:What I would say is this.
Whether it's kids or adults, whether it's NHL players that I work with and I go into locker rooms with pro teams, right down to kids, I would say in theory they are more receptive to the idea of a gay teammate or, you know, different people in the space than what has been the traditional norm.
And I'm going to talk about the men's side of the sport because I think the women's side, they're, you know, much further ahead on this stuff significantly. So what I will say though is I don't think the language and the behaviors have matched their thoughts. I think that's where the disconnect is.
The way they put each other down 99% of the time, regardless who you are, is using homophobic or sexist language. They'll target, you know, racialized people specifically with racist stuff. But everyone generally, it's sexist and homophobic stuff.
So they're still doing that. But I would say hockey, out of all the sports, would be the most supportive of a gay teammate, which is a wild thing to say.
Piper Shaw:Interesting.
Brock McGillis:Yeah, I, I truly believe that. Because that family mentality would be like, protect, you know, and I mean, we see it here.
Justin, the athletic therapist here, and how he's been so well received and treated by players and his experience here as a part of that team. This culture would be the most inclusive yet. We haven't humanized, engaged, educated the players enough at the top level.
All the way down to youth to foster environments where those players can then come out and be themselves. If a kid can't or an adult can't talk about their love of reading, like, literally.
And I have kids crying in sessions saying, I'm afraid my teammates are gonna call me gay if they know I read. I, I, I've known adults who have been traded because they'd rather go to museums and go for drinks with the boys.
Like, this happens in our sport and that's just a reality.
And until like, if, if we aren't fostering environments where those people can just live and be themselves, themselves, what are we doing for, like, how do you expect somebody to come out? You know? So it's like a catch 22 that we just have to keep pushing it forward.
Piper Shaw:Yeah, definitely. Well, like I said, I'm grateful to even be able to have this conversation with both of you, to be honest and to work alongside you, JT every day.
And Brock, keep up the good work. And I feel like we should be honored here at the Seattle Kraken to be the first stop of the US Tour of this leg.
Brock McGillis:Well, I'm honored to be here, truly. I've had such a warm reception by everyone in the organization. I'm really grateful to be here.
Piper Shaw:Well, it's been great to have you and thank you so much for taking the time out of your also very busy schedule. I know you got more places to go to join us here on Signals from the Deep, so it was awesome to meet you and to get to chat.
Brock McGillis:Thank you so much.
Grant Beery:Brock, if our listeners want to learn more about you, where can they go?
Brock McGillis:They can go social media. I'm mostly on Instagram, sometimes on TikTok. Do you have Tick Tock in this country today?
Grant Beery:I think as of now we do.
Brock McGillis:Okay, Brock McGillis, 33 on socials or my website, Brock McGillis.com great.
Grant Beery:Thank you.
JT Brown:Thanks again for, you know, having this conversation and the hard work that you put in it gets noticed, I think at least even from what our perspective. And again, just commend you and keep doing what you're doing.
You have a amazing platform, amazing voice and obviously really thankful for you to be able to try to continue to grow this game and not only saving lives, but also making it a better place for the kids. And again, thanks again for getting on the podcast. Really appreciate it.
Brock McGillis:Thank you. Anytime. Thanks for having me.
Grant Beery:Signals from the Deep is the official podcast of your Seattle cracking and is a proud member of the Kraken Hockey Network, hosted by Piper Shaw and J.T. brown. Music composed by Benny Drawbars. Production by Grant Beery. Have a question for the show?
-: JT Brown:It.
